In this era of everyone and their grandpa (and dog) having a podcast, I have to wonder: Are all these newbie interviewers just pulling off really skillful grifts? Step 1: Interview famous people. Step 2: Profit! Spicy hot takes aside, in this episode I talk about how the journey is the destination, and how crucial (and unavoidable) it is for us to really put in the hours and do the work of developing and advancing our thought processes, analytical skills, rhetorical skills, and skills in the creative industries/spaces of our choice. I talk about how this is something that I've observed in pretty much every creative space I've ever spent time in - it's not unique to the podcast space whatsoever, though much of what I say here is inspired by some of what I heard at Podcamp Toronto this past weekend! As one presenter said at the conference: You are not owed an audience. What value do you bring? Tune in for a super interesting discussion of these themes.